LIVE UPDATES: Lori Daybell’s life insurance phone calls played on day 5 of Arizona trial
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Lori Vallow Daybell is on trial in Maricopa County, Arizona, on one charge of conspiracy to commit the murder of Charles Vallow, her fourth husband. Nate Eaton is live in the courtroom with updates. Please excuse any typos. Times listed below are in Mountain Standard Time, so they are an hour behind Idaho. (Arizona does not observe Daylight Saving Time.) The most recent updates are at the top.
EDITOR’S NOTE: Autopsy photos were shown during court on Monday. Reader discretion is advised.
4:39 p.m. Treena doesn’t know of anyone off the top of her head. Lori suggests maybe a witness can help. Judge tells Lori to get with Mr. Dworkin later tonight and see if it can be revolved. Dworkin is Lori’s expert. Judge says this is unlikely to be an issue for this trial because it was filed late. We are in recess.
4:38 p.m. Treena says she has multiple problems with the fact that this is still being discussed at this point in the trial. Judge asks if someone at the police station can get on the phone and help the defense.
4:37 p.m. Jeff White, Lori’s investigator, says he spent four hours trying to open the files. Treena says you made need a Cellebrite account to open it. Jeff says he has an old version of Cellebrite and it’s not working.
4:36 p.m. Lori has one more item to discuss. She says she was given a flash drive on Friday from the state with the cell phone extractions. The drive won’t open. Lori’s expert is out of town. Lori is wondering what to do. Lori has her investigator explain what’s going on. Judge asks where the extraction is coming from. The drive contains raw data from the Chandler Police Department.
4:35 p.m. Join me tonight on “Courtroom Insider” at 8 p.m. MT on the East Idaho News YouTube channel. I will break it all down. Lots to talk about.
4:33 p.m. Judge tells Lori she can not phrase questions with “I understand” or other phrases like that. It’s a form of testifying. Judge says he allowed the clips of Lori’s interrogation into the trial, rather than the entire interview, is because the rule Lori cited does not apply here.
4:32 p.m. The evidence is turned over to the police computer/cell phone analysts at the actual police stations. Judge says we will take evening recess. Jurors will report at 10:15 a.m. tomorrow.
4:29 p.m. Lori talks about the phone being in the cupholder of the car “where it had been all day.” Treena objects – says Lori is testifying. Judge sustains. Lori asks what happened to the phone after Ynclan took it. She explains the chain of command in the police department.
4:28 p.m. Lori asks what time they got back to the house and what time Ynclan left the scene. Ynclan doesn’t know.
4:27 p.m. Lori asks Ynclan what she did inside the house after Lori, Tylee and Alex left. Ynclan said she broke briefly with some other detectives and then left to work on another case.
4:26 p.m. When they got back to the house, Ynclan says Alex could not take his truck or Tylee’s Jeep because the search warrant was still happening. Lori’s car could not be taken because it was in the garage. So they took the rental car.
4:25 p.m. Lori says, “You testified I chatted the whole way back.” Ynclan says correct. “It wasn’t Alex and Tylee chatting and me looking out the window the whole way home?” Ynclan says no – it was mainly Lori talking.
4:24 p.m. Lori asks where Ynclan put Lori and Tylee at the end of their interviews. “You stayed at the Family Advocacy Center until we left.” Lori met a victim advocate and then went back to the house.
4:23 p.m. Lori asks if she believes Tylee’s demeanor was genuine that day. Prosecutor objects. Sustained. Lori asks if she thought Tylee might be making something up. Prosecutor sustains. Lori asks Ynclan if she learned during Lori’s interview that Tylee had a bat. Ynclan says yes.
4:22 p.m. Lori asks how long Ynclan interviewed Tylee. Ynclan believes it was around 30-40 minutes. Lori asks Ynclan if she believed Tylee. Treena objects. Judge sustains.
4:20 p.m. Lori says she was worried about Tylee. Treena objects. Judge sustains. Lori asks Ynclan if she always wears her gun when she does interviews. Ynclan says now she does based on her assignment. Lori asks if Ynclan treated Tylee and Lori like they were victims that day. “Actually, yes.” Lori asks if wearing a gun would have intimidated Tylee. Ynclan says based on her age, she doesn’t believe so.
4:19 p.m. Lori asks Ynclan if she asked Tylee if she could be interviewed. Lori asks if either of them were told they were being videotaped. Ynclan says no. Lori says Tylee was left in the interview room alone while Lori was interviewed. Lori’s interview was about 35-40 minutes, Ynclan estimates, and Tylee was in another room by herself.
4:18 p.m. Lori asks Ynclan if she asked Lori for permission to speak with her minor daughter. Ynclan said she indicated that she wanted to speak with both of you. Lori asks what the protocol is for interviewing a minor. Lori asks if she is a certified interviewer of children. Ynclan says yes. Ynclan did not specifically ask Lori for permission to interview Tylee.
4:16 p.m. Lori asks Ynclan what she said when she walked up to the van – if she was coming to give a death notice. Ynclan said it would be redundant for her to say she was giving a death notification and then say Charles was dead. Lori asks who spoke with her and what was said to her. “You said you were there and that you already knew. I then asked you and Tylee to come back to the station for interviews. It was a consensual contact, it was a voluntary interview.”
4:13 p.m. Lori asks if it would have been non-emotional if she was being calm for her daughter. Treena objects. Judge sustains. Lori asks if Ynclan was being calm, if EMS was being calm, if police were being calm, if everyone else was being calm. “It was a pretty calm environment that day?” Ynclan says she wouldn’t agree with that. “Well nobody was running around hysterical?” Ynclan says that’s true.
4:12 p.m. Lori asks Ynclan if she recalls Tylee needing her medicine in the house. Ynclan is aware Lori made a request for her medication, but police were waiting on a search warrant so nothing could come out of the house.
4:10 p.m. Lori says “You talked about my demeanor being ordinary.” Ynclan says, “Correct.” Lori asks for her definition of nonchalant. “Detached, calm, doesn’t really matter, not extraordinary.” Lori asks Ynclan if she has a degree in psychology. She says she does not. Lori asks if she knows how a person should react in a stressful situation. Ynclan says there isn’t one way to act, but there is behavior that is striking.
4:08 p.m. When Ynclan got there, Lori and Tylee had not arrived on the scene. Lori asks when Ynclan saw Tylee and Lori arrive. Ynclan doesn’t know exactly, she just remembers seeing Lori and Tylee at one point.
4:07 p.m. Lori asks when the switch happened. Ynclan does not know. She asks Ynclan what time she got the call to go to the scene. Ynclan says it was likely about 10-15 minutes after the initial call came in.
4:06 p.m. Treena has no further questions. Lori approaches the lectern and asks who the case agent was on July 11, 2019. Ynclan says it was Det. Moffatt. When Det. Moffatt was promoted to Sgt., Det. Nathan Duncan became the case agent for this case.
4:05 p.m. Susan Bin, a court sketch artist, drew this to show a view of the courtroom.
4:04 p.m. Treena shows Charles’ phone to Ynclan. It’s in a plastic bag and a sticky note is attached with the PIN written on the note.
4:02 p.m. Lori’s demeanor was calm and unaffected by what was going on. “It struck me as a little odd,” Ynclan says. The passcode on the phone was 0000. Ynclan didn’t check to see if it worked.
4:01 p.m. Detectives Coons and Duncan said they could not find Charles’ phone. Ynclan went over to the rental car and she asked Tylee and Lori if they knew where Charles’s phone was. Tylee pulled it out of the cup holder and gave it to Ynclan. Ynclan asked if they knew the passcode and then Ynclan took the phone. Lori said she found the phone in the car.
4 p.m. The detectives called Ynclan around 2 and asked if she could reach out to Lori. They wanted Lori and Alex to come back to the house to a walk-thru of the scene. Ynclan called Lori twice on her phone and left a message. Ynclan then went back to the scene. Alex returned to the scene and Lori and Tylee were outside with the red rental car.
3:59 p.m. When they got back to the house, Lori, Alex and Tylee left in the red rental car. Detectives at the house were finishing the search warrant. Ynclan left to go work on a different case at the police station.
3:57 p.m. Lori “chattered” the entire way back to the house, which was very striking to Ynclan. Lori was just talking like it was any other day. She did not acknowledge what happened. Ynclan says Lori never talked about contacting Charles’ sons.
3:56 p.m. After the interviews, Ynclan needed to get Tylee and Lori back to the house as they weren’t in custody. She obtained a minivan from Victim Services to take everyone back to the scene. Ynclan and Det. Moffatt sat in the very back of the van. Tylee was up front and Lori and Alex were in the back.
3:55 p.m. The exhibit is the entire police interview. Treena does not play it for the jury. Treena asks if Lori ever called 911. She did not. Alex Cox called 911. Treena asks about the multiple cell phones Lori had to herself – plus she had Charles’ phone, but she never called 911 from any of the phones.
3:54 p.m. Treena asks if Lori ever explained why she just didn’t hand the phone back over to Charles to end the argument. Ynclan says Lori did not. Treena asks to admit another exhibit.
3:52 p.m. Treena admits another part of the interview. In this clip, Lori says with a laugh that Charles was a professional baseball player and it was not a good idea for Tylee to get a bat. Lori says she heard the gunshot (not plural – one shot) and came around to see Charles on the ground.
3:48 p.m. Treena plays another section of the police interview. Lori talks about going outside to see if the kids were ok when the argument was happening inside. JJ was trying to go in the house, Lori tells Ynclan, and Tylee was looking at Lori with “crazy eyes.” Lori told Tylee to get in the car because we are going to take JJ to school.
3:45 p.m. Lori told Ynclan that her husband was a semi-professional baseball player. Lori did not indicate if she saw her brother go get a gun or pull out a gun. Lori specifically said “the shot” as if there was one shot, Ynclan says.
3:44 p.m. Treena moves to admit another portion of the interview. We hear Lori describing how Charles came at her with the bat and then her brother was there. “It was all really quickly,” Lori says on the tape. Ynclan asks how Charles was holding the bat. Lori says Charles was holding it backwards.
3:42 p.m. Lori never said during the interview that Charles started the argument. Lori said she started the argument because she would not give Charles back his phone. Lori said she was afraid of her husband, invited her brother over and then when Charles came over, she started a fight by refusing to give him back his phone.
3:40 p.m. Ynclan did not ask Lori why she didn’t just give the phone back to Charles so he could take JJ to school. During the interview, Lori said that Tylee came out with a bat and poked at Charles with the bat while Lori and Charles were arguing. Lori said Charles took the bat away from Tylee and Tylee fell back. Lori told Tylee to go outside with JJ. Lori never told Ynclan why her brother brought a loaded gun to the house. Lori told Ynclan she had asked Alex to come over to the house.
3:39 p.m. Another portion of the interview is played. In this part, Lori tells Ynclan about Charles coming back in to get his phone. “He was screaming at me to give him his phone. He was very worried about what was on his texts. I was kind of walking about the house with it so he couldn’t get it. He was reaching for it,” Lori says on the tape.
3:37 p.m. Lori told Ynclan she asked Charles why he was talking with her brother, Adam. Ynclan didn’t know who Adam was and didn’t know they were texting with each other. Ynclan also did not know that Lori was in possession of Charles’ phone. Ynclan didn’t know Charles had flown Adam to Phoenix.
3:36 p.m. Lori tells Ynclan that Charles was demanding to get his phone back but Lori was telling him to show her his text messages.
3:33 p.m. Another portion of the interview is admitted where Lori tells Ynclan she put JJ in the car. The video is played and Lori says Charles was acting “really weird – like he was plotting something.” Lori says her other brother came into town and she asked Charles why he was texting Adam.
3:31 p.m. Treena moves to admit another portion of the video where Lori talks about what time Charles showed up that morning. Judge asks Lori if she has the same objection. Lori says same objection. Judge overrules and the exhibit plays. Lori says on the tape that Charles said he would be there at 7:30 a.m. but he got there at 7:40ish. Charles is usually punctual, Lori says.
3:28 p.m. Lori told Ynclan that Charles was gone a lot. Lori told Ynclan she had texted with Charles the night before the shooting. Treena asks to admit another portion of the interview where Lori says Charles was not at the house the night before and would be over in the morning. Judge looks at Lori and says, “Same objection?” Lori says, “Same objection.” Judge overrules. The clip is played. Lori begins by saying Charles and his “macho attitude.”
3:25 p.m. Back in courtroom. Treena asks Ynclan if Lori spoke about Charles living out of town. She says yes. Treena asks to admit and play another portion of Lori’s police interview. Lori objects and says the entire interview should be played. Judge denies her request. Treena plays a portion of the interview where Lori says Charles works with teachers and their retirement plans.
3:08 p.m. This juror commented on the amount being high in relation to Lori. That was the extent of the conversation. Judge reminds juror he can not talk about the case with other jurors until after closing arguments. The juror can remain. We are now in recess.
3:06 p.m. Treena has one follow-up question, Lori does not have any. Judge tells the juror not to talk about it with other jurors. Juror 16 is now brought in. Judge asks the juror if, during the testimony of the Social Security investigator, he started to talk with another juror about something to do with Social Security. The juror says yes, the other juror told him he had a Social Security issue.
3:04 p.m. Judge asks one juror to stay behind. Judge asks the juror if he discussed Social Security after the witness this morning. Juror says he was having an issue with Social Security and spoke with another juror about it. Judge asks if he can set aside his feelings and not have it affect the case. Juror says he can do that. Judge reminds him not to talk about witness testimony or about the case until it’s time to deliberate.
3:03 p.m. Treena plays a clip where Lori says after he files the paperwork, she was only going to get supervised visits and she didn’t talk to him for 30 days. Judge says we will now take 15 minute break.
3:01 p.m. Lori insinuated that Charles traveled to just kind of “getaway.” Lori told Ynclan that JJ had been with Charles in Houston for some time. Treena moves to admit another portion of the interview. Lori objects – says the entire interview should be played. Judge overrules the objection.
3 p.m. Ynclan says Lori never offered to show her the threatening texts even though she had her phone with her and Lori never explained what she meant. Ynclan later learned most of the communication between Lori and Charles was on another cell phone. Lori had not provided that phone number to Ynclan.
2:58 p.m. Treena plays the part of the video where Lori explains JJ was a “drug baby” and had problems. Lori says Charles is always gone and brought her stuff from Houston. Lori says there’s “always threats on my phone.” Ynclan asks what kind of threats. Lori says “you’d have to read them” and “he’s always mad at me.” Lori says, “I don’t like him and don’t want to deal with him and that’s just how it is.”
2:57 p.m. Treena is playing small portions from the police interview. Lori objects to having portions played – she wants the entire video played. Judge overrules the objection and allows the portions to be played.
2:53 p.m. Ynclan had not gone into the house at this point. She did not know that Lori had Charles’ phone with her. Ynclan assumed his phone was at the scene. Treena Kay asks to admit evidence showing Lori’s interview with her at the police station. You can watch the entire video here.
2:52 p.m. Lori and Tylee were separated for interviews. Lori had a phone with her in the interview but wasn’t on it and didn’t do anything with it.
2:51 p.m. Lori acted normal, was not crying or emotional. She never asked any questions about her brother or husband. The car ride was about 20 minutes long. Lori was “chatting away” the whole time.
2:50 p.m. Lori and Tylee rode with Ynclan in her city police vehicle. Lori sat in the front passenger seat, Tylee sat behind her. “It’s a little bit awkward because you’re trying not to talk about anything that happened until you get to the police station,” Ynclan says. She said it was “strange small talk” and they spoke about Tylee, her schooling, etc.
2:49 p.m. Ynclan took Lori and Tylee to the FAC – Family Advovacy Center – at the police station. It’s designed specifically for victims of crime and it’s where they do interviews of children, other victims.
2:48 p.m. Lori’s demeanor did not change when she told Ynclan she was there at the shooting and knew her husband was dead. Ynclan said she wanted to talk with Lori and asked if she could take Lori and Tylee back to the police department for an interview. She ended up driving both of them back to the station.
2:47 p.m. “I made contact with her and asked if she would step out of the van to talk with me. At that point, she said she already knew because she was there. At that point, I confirmed with her that he had died and was deceased. Her and Tylee are now witnesses to the event and needed to be interviewed,” Ynclan says.
2:46 p.m. Lori and Tylee were in the CARE van. Ynclan tried to get Lori out of the van so she could tell her Charles was dead outside of the presence of a child. Ynclan ended up getting into the van to tell Lori her husband was dead. “She was pretty calm, didn’t seem overly affected.”
2:45 p.m. Ynclan had a discussion with her sergeant and agreed it would be the right thing to give Lori a death notification. Lori and Charles were married and “she was standing basically in the crime scene. I think professionally in delaying letting somenoe know their loved one is deceased isn’t appropriate.”
2:43 p.m. Ynclan learned Alex Cox was the shooter and the deceased man inside the home was Charles Vallow. Ynclan spoke with her sergeant about doing the death notification to Lori Vallow. Ynclan did not believe that Lori knew her husband was dead because she wasn’t there when Ynclan showed up.
2:42 p.m. Lori didn’t seem real animated or emotional while talking with Ynclan. “Just kind of ordinary and nonchalant.” Krautheim came over and spoke with Ynclan and other detectives. He told them who Lori and Tylee were.
2:40 p.m. Ynclan noticed Lori and Tylee, at one point, arrived at the house. “I’m not sure exactly when but I realized they were standing in the vicinity of the crime scene.” Ynclan noticed the interaction between Officer Krautheim and Lori and Tylee. Ynclan did not know who they were but learned a short time later.
2:37 p.m. Ynclan says when she arrived, they do a quick triage of the scene. Treena asks the roles of a detective versus patrol officers. Ynclan says patrol are the first responders – they do initial investigation, scene safety, etc. Detectives get called out if search warrants or other specialized things are needed. Once detectives take investigations over, patrol gets released.
2:36 p.m. As Ynclan was walking south toward the house, Alex was seated on the curb. He appeared “normal” – and was not agitated or upset. “He had what looked like a paper towel or Kleenex in his hand. At one point he reached back and kind of touched the back of his head.”
2:35 p.m. Detectives did not have body cameras in 2019. They did get theirs a few years later. When Ynclan arrived in the gated neighborhood, there was yellow crime scene tape up. Several of the intial patrol officers were still present. A CARE (crisis) unit was also on the scene.
2:34 p.m. On July 11, Ynclan was on her way to a community event. She heard some police radio traffic about a shooting at a home. Her supervisor then called and asked for her and other detectives to go to the scene. Ynclan arrived at the house around 9:28-9:30 a.m.
2:32 p.m. Ynclan shares her history with the department. The detectives work four ten-hour shifts. She works Tuesday-Friday. One detective in the unit is on-call all the time.
2:30 p.m. Ynclan works in the robbery/homicide unit. Next week, she will had 24 years with the department. She started in patrol and all her law enforcement experience has been with Chandler.
2:29 p.m. Next witness: Detective Casandra Ynclan from Chandler Police Department.
2:28 p.m. Juror asks where the casings would go if the gun was held sideways. Moberg says it depends on which was it’s held and how the casings hit the ground. No follow up from state or defense. Witness is dismissed.
2:25 p.m. Moberg is not able to say, “That was from shot #1, that was from shot #2.” Treena has no further questions. There is at least one question from the jury.
2:24 p.m. Treena asks what side the casings projected from. Moberg says the right and up. “When casings are ejected and you’re not attempting to move your arm or the gun, do they always end in the same spot?” Moberg says they do not. They could bounce and roll.
2:22 p.m. Lori says “in your report, I don’t want to simplify it because I know you are a scientist, does it basically say those casings came from this particular gun.” He responds, “it says the items were fired from this particular item.”
2:19 p.m. Lori asks about the water testing process. He fires into the water tank from about a foot away. A big net catches the cartridge casings. “They shoot out of the gun and then get caught by the net.” Lori says, “They don’t land on the ground and roll close to each other?” They don’t, Moberg says.
2:18 p.m. Lori asks what detective Moberg worked with. It was Det. Nathan Duncan. Lori asks Moberg how his reports are prepared and filed. Lori asks about the photos. They were attached to all of his case notes. Lori asks how long his report was. Moberg says likely 13-14 pages.
2:16 p.m. Treena is done questioning. Lori will now cross-examine. She asks when he was requested to test the firearm. It was in March 2025.
2:14 p.m. Moberg documented everything with photos – the comparisons, the testing, etc. He then documents his opinions and hands all his evidence to another trained examiner. That examiner is doing to do a comparison himself without looking at Moberg’s results. The other examiner was in agreement with Moberg’s results.
2:13 p.m. Moberg was able to determine the cartridge casings found at the house were fired from the handgun police had collected – the one Alex Cox claimed to have used.
2:10 p.m. The gun functioned as designed, Moberg says. He fired it three times. They collect a minimum of three and that’s all that is needed. The trigger needed to be pulled each time but he didn’t need to reload between each trigger pull.
2:08 p.m. When Moberg was first handed the gun, he looked down the barrel of the gun. He wants to make sure there is no obstruction and is documenting if there are power particles, traces of bullets, etc. Moberg test-fired the gun into a water tank. He used it to collect projectiles and the water tank allows him to collect it. He used similar ammunition that has the same type of jacket.
2:07 p.m. The gun was a Springfield Armory XDM 45 caliber semiautomatic pistol. 45 refers to the 45 auto caliber – the measurement of the bullet.
2:05 p.m. Moberg was provided with the handgun Alex used. He was also provided with some casings. When he receives evidence, he initials and dates the day he receives it.
2:01 p.m. Moberg is able to determine what projectiles were fired from certain guns. He compares what comes out of a gun and is able to test fire weapons.
2 p.m. “When the projectile itself is fired out the barrel, are there any marks left on that,” Treena asks. Moberg says yes. Marks are left from the inside of the barrel.
1:59 p.m. When a person fires a semiautomatic handgun, are any identifying marks left on the cartridge, Treena asks. Moberg says yes.
1:57 p.m. Treena shows a photo of a semiautomatic handgun. She then shows a live round, or cartridge, that was inside Alex Cox’s bag. Treena asks what happens to the rest of a live round after a bullet is fired. The expelled cartridge case is ejected and a new one can be loaded in.
1:56 p.m. Treena Kay asks how a semiautomatic gun works. He says it’s designed to fire one round with a single pull of the trigger but it also cycles the firearm. Cycling means pulling the slide back and allowing it to go forward through the chamber. It’s then ready to fire.
1:55 p.m. Moberg explains the training and background he’s been through over the years. He is given competency tests to demonstrate his ability to do his job.
1:53 p.m. Moberg is a forensic scientist in the firearms and tool unit. He’s worked with DPS since 2013 and has worked in the firearms unit since 2018.
1:50 p.m. Next witness is Jeff Moberg with the Department of Public Safety.
1:49 p.m. Scott says there was nothing she could do, even if she felt bad for them. That was her last interaction with Lori. The life insurance was paid out to Kay Woodcock. No further questions. Lori says she has no questions for the witness.
1:48 p.m. Treena asks if Lori understood how the process works. Scott says she feels like Lori didn’t really understand, even know Lori said she did. “Ultimately did Banner life insurance have any insurance policy with Lori Vallow?” No, she did not have any coverage under Banner Life.
1:46 p.m. As this call is played in court, Lori is taking notes. On the call, Lori says her $2 million policy may not be with Banner. Scott says she can’t find any record of the policy. Lori says she may need to call the other insurance. Lori asks Scott what would happen if something happened to her and Charles was on the policy. Scott says it would likely go to her estate. Call ends with Lori saying, “Thank you. I just needed that information.”
1:42 p.m. Treena plays the call. Lori reads off the policy number and gives her name. Lori told Scott in her voicemail that she had information that Lori was the sole beneficiary. She says she was originally the sole beneficiary but then it was changed to her getting 80% and two of her employees each getting 10%. Scott has no information about that but says the beneficiary was changed in March of this year. “I’m trying to figure out what he was doing. We have 5 kids and we’ve been married for 15 years. I know he owes a lot of people money…now I’m left with none. Did he change it to one person or several people?” Scott says she can’t release that. Lori: “We deal with this business all the time so I kind of know how it works but I’m completely surprised. We have a 7-year-old with autism that we adopted together so I’m surprised that he would do that without telling me.” Lori asks if there’s nothing she can do about that. Scott says no, this is a contract with the policyholder. Lori asks if Charles could have changed her life insurance policy if he was the agent.
1:40 p.m. Banner would never tell someone who the new beneficiary is – that’s private information. After Lori got the email, she called Banner. Lori left a voicemail, Scott called her back and left a voicemail. They finally connected. Treena asks to admit another recording from July 18, 2019.
1:39 p.m. Banner reviewed the policy and learned Lori is not the primary beneficiary. A letter was emailed to Lori letting her know the news. The letter did not say who was the primary beneficiary and did not tell her when the policy changed.
1:37 p.m. Scott did not know during the call that there was a dispute in the beneficiary. Every policy is reviewed to determine the claim information and a packet is prepared for each claim. That packet has a cover letter that lists the requirements that are needed. A claim form and death certificate are always required.
1:36 p.m. Treena asks if it’s normal when someone calls in for Banner to look up the policy and take a bit of time to verify what’s being told to them. Scott says yes, that’s normal. Everything is reviewed on the policy file along with any paperwork or changes that have come in over the course of the policy.
1:35 p.m. Treena Kay asks about Scott inquiring how Charles died. Lori said it was an accident, not a homicide.
1:34 p.m. Scott says, “I’m very sorry for your loss. You take care of yourself.” Lori responds, “Thank you” and the call ends.
1:33 p.m. Scott asks who the primary beneficiary of the policy is. Lori responds, “It’s me.” Scott asks for Lori’s mailing address. That’s all the information Scott needed. She says the beneficiary information will be reviewed and a claim packet will be prepared and sent to the main beneficiary. Lori asks if it could be emailed.
1:31 p.m. Scott asks Lori a few questions to open the claim. She asks for Lori’s phone number. Lori gives it. Scott asks when he died. July 11. Scott asks cause of his passing. Lori: “Ummm…well, he was shot.
1:30 p.m. Scott answers the call and asks for the policy number. Lori reads it off and says she’s calling in reference to a death claim. Scott asks for the name of the insured. “L. Charles Vallow.” “This is Lori Vallow. He’s my husband.”
1:29 p.m. All calls are recorded at Banner Life. Treena Kay moves to play the call.
1:28 p.m. Contingent beneficiaries are listed – meaning if the primary beneficiary passes away, the contingent beneficiaries receive the money. Those recipients were Nicholas and Zac Vallow.
1:25 p.m. Scott walks back up to the witness stand. Jury is in the courtroom. Treena Kay shows the juror the beneficiary form that Charles changed to Kay Woodcock. Kay is here in this afternoon.
1:23 p.m. Judge says Brandon Boudreax’s subpoena is quashed. Now judge discusses motion in limine regarding a video viewed by Janis Cox and Summer Shiflet. Lori hasn’t had a change to talk about her advisory counsel about it and judge says that’s ok. Jury will now be brought back in.
1:22 p.m. Judge asks Lori about the subpoena sent to Robert Bobby Vallow. Lori says it was mixed up with an exhibit and it was a clerical issue. “It’s very difficult on the jail when they cut me off after 20 minutes.” The subpoena wasn’t effective in the way it was served, Beresky says, and judge is withdrawing the subpoena.
1:21 p.m. Judge says there are a lot of reasons that the investigation took quite a while that the jury does not need to know about. “I don’t think it’s relevant. If you think it’s relevant and you think you have a question regarding the timing or who was or wasn’t arrested, ask if we can take a break.” Lori says, “Ok.”
1:19 p.m. Beresky says he doesn’t know the extent to which Lori intends to cross-examine police officers as to why she and Alex weren’t arrested or why it took so long to arrest her. He asks Lori if she plans to ask the officers those questions. “Not in those specific terms,” Lori says. Judge asks her what that means and says the timing would not be relevant to the trial.
1:18 p.m. State will call two witnesses this afternoon: Jeff Moberg and Sandra Ynclan. Judge asks the state when it will conclude its case. Treena Kay says it will likely be Thursday.
1:16 p.m. Judge is on the bench. When video resumes, here is the link.
1:13 p.m. Back in the courtroom. There will be a motions hearing before the jury comes back in. Witness #15, Rachel Smith Scott, will be back on the stand this afternoon. The prosecution has listed 21 witnesses.
12:04 p.m. We will be back at 1:15 p.m. for the motions hearing.
12:02 p.m. Judge explains that during the sidebar, some of it was not captured by the court reporter. He repeats the questions that were asked. One of the questions was not asked – if someone lied on their application, would they need to pay it back? Both state and defense objected to having that question asked. Lori objected to the question about Lori contacting SS. Judge allowed it in.
12:01 p.m. We are taking lunch recess. Back at 1:30 p.m.
11:59 a.m. Treena Kay moves to admit an affidavit authenticating the beneficiary change. There is also a CD of the phone recording with Lori Vallow. You can listen to the call here.
11:57 a.m. Calls are recorded when people call in to change beneficiary information. Before Feb. 26, 2019, Lori Vallow was the beneficiary of Charles’ life insurance. In February, Charles called Banner and requested a beneficiary change form. It was emailed to him and it was sent back notarized. Kay Woodcock then became the primary beneficiary.
11:56 a.m. Scott explains how someone changes a beneficiary on a policy. She believes any changes made to policies over $500,000 and above needs to be notarized.
11:55 a.m. Scott has to make sure the company has the most recent beneficiary on file. Banner Life Insurance keeps copies of all changes made to policies.
11:54 a.m. “When someone passes away, who decides who will be paid out?” Treena asks. Scott says the policy will be reviewed and any documents that have been submitted. They are going to determine and confirm who the primary beneficiary of the policy is.
11:53 a.m. The policy owner and the insured person can be the same person or they might not be. The policy owner can change the beneficiary – the person who will receive the death benefit in the event of the insured person’s death. Only the policy owner can make changes to the policy.
11:51 a.m. Treena asks how someone gets life insurance. You could talk with an agent or apply online. A policy owner is the person who owns the policy and can make any changes. They have complete control over the policy.
11:50 a.m. Scott works in the claims department and processes death claims. She has testified in prior court hearings about payout policies.
11:48 a.m. Robin Smith Scott is the next witness. She is the Custodian of Records for Banner Life Insurance.
11:47 a.m. Treena follows up by asking if everything is done on computer – not just papers. He says correct. He says Social Security was never told about Lori’s marriage change. No further questions. Saari is dismissed from the witness stand.
11:46 a.m. Lori asks Saari if has all of the information from every SS office and seems to insinuate that she went to SS office in Hawaii. Saari says of all the records she has, there is no indication Lori notified SS that she remarried. Lori asks what would need to be done to put in a notification. An employee would have to put a notice in the database and Saari would have access to that. No changes were made on Lori’s behalf after August 2019. “So none were made in November, to your knowledge?” Lori asks. “There were none made.”
11:45 a.m. Juror asks if payments to Lori Vallow were stopped after his investigation. They were. During his investigation, was SS notified by Lori Vallow of her new marriage? She did not. Judge asks defendant if she has any follow up. She does.
11:44 a.m. Judge and attorneys went on sidebar with headphones and white noise. They all just took them off and are talking with the judge at the bench as he is holding the exhibit.
11:38 a.m. Streaming video here.
11:35 a.m. Saari did not see any survivor spousal benefit applications or forms. Treena asks if the benefits for Lori would have been terminated when she became Lori Daybell. Saari says Lori’s benefits woud have stopped, but JJ’s would have continued. Nothing further from Treena. At least one juror has a question.
11:34 a.m. Treena says in addition to the initial letter about meeting with Social Security, Lori was sent other letters that showed her how much she was ultimately awarded – one for JJ, one as the mother-in-care of JJ.
11:33 a.m. Treena talks about the letters sent to Lori that explained the benefits she would be getting. “Does Social Security just start deciding for people what benefits they feel they might want?” Saari says “not at all.” It’s all based on what people apply for.
11:32 a.m. Lori has no more questions. Treena will now re-direct. She asks what the point of the meeting at Social Security is. The purpose is for an applicant to come and meet with someone to determine whether they are eligible for the benefits.
11:30 a.m. Lori is back at the lectern. She asks Saari if he was present at the interview with her and the employee. He was not. She asks if he knows what was said. He does not. He saw her applications when he began his investigation in January 2020. Lori asks Saari who his superior is. He says he has a special-agent-in-charge who is his immediate boss. Lori asks who assigned Lori’s case to him. Treena objects based on relevance. Judge says the witness can answer. Special Agent in Charge was Joe Rogers, he assigned the case to Saari.
11:29 a.m. Lori asks for a moment to confer with her counsel.
11:27 a.m. Lori asks how the money is supposed to be spent. She says food and clothes, etc. Saari says it can also be saved for the survivor. Lori says the benefit is supposed to be spent every month and not saved up. Saari says that’s not correct – it’s for college. Lori is insinuating the employee told her it could not be saved for college. Prosecutor objects – says Lori is testifying. Judge sustains.
11:26 a.m. Lori asks if there was a spousal support form she applied for and insinuates the employee could have made a mistake in putting the information in the computer. Saari says Lori was present at the Social Security office to go through line by line of the applications. “So, if I thought…” she then corrects herself to say, “If a person” and then changes direction. Lori asks if Saari has seen all of her applications. He has received any and all documents in relation to JJ and Lori.
11:24 a.m. Lori asks if an employee put in the wrong benefit a recipient, would it be up the applicant to correct it. Lori asks if he has a copy of the application she filled out. Saari says she would need to talk to the prosecutor. Saari has seen the forms and she applied for child-in-care and survivor benefits for JJ.
11:23 a.m. Lori asks how an employee determines whether someone gets a spousal benefit versus a mother care benefit. Saari says it’s up to the person to apply for the benefit. They would then get a letter in the mail and be told during their appointment. Lori begins by saying “if I was told” and the prosecutor objects as testifying. Judge sustains.
11:22 a.m. Lori asks about the mother-in-care benefits versus a spousal benefit. Colby is back in the courtrooom.
11:21 a.m. Lori asks Saari what he does for his job. He investigates fraud. She asks if he’s privy to what a Social Security employee would tell a “regular person” who might come in to talk with them. He says he is not in those meetings.
11:20 a.m. Lori says if there were two spouses to a deceased husband, consecutively, and they were both each married for over ten years to that same husband, could they both apply for and receive a spousal benefit? Saari says he isn’t aware of the policy regarding that issue. Lori says if it was explained to her that she could receive it…Treena objects as testifying. Judge sustains.
11:19 a.m. Lori asks if a surviving spouse can get benefits if they don’t have any children. Saari believes so. Lori says if you’ve been married for longer than ten years, you get benefits. Saari says there are some rules for that but yes.
11:18 a.m. Treena asks Saari if he learned that Lori eventually got married. He says yes. She married Chad Daybell on Nov. 15, 2019. Treena has nothing further. Lori will now cross.
11:16 a.m. Lori also got a letter saying she gets a Social Security payment of $1,951 per month plus backpay of $4,157. Combined, Lori is getting nearly $4,000 a month from JJ and her benefits.
11:15 a.m. Treena shows the letter on the screen. It says JJ Vallow is entitled to monthly benefits beginning July 2019. He would get $1,951 per month plus backpay of $3,902 to the date Charles died.
11:14 a.m. Saari was aware of a letter Social Security sent to Lori regarding survivor benefits. Treena moves to admit the letters as evidence.
11:12 a.m. Lori and Charles were married Feb. 24, 2006. During the August 2019 meeting, Lori was questioned if she and Charles were living together at the time of her death. Lori told them they were living together at the time of the death. That fact helps determine if recipients are entitled to the benefit.
11:12 a.m. Treena asks if Saari became aware of Lori going to an appointment with someone at Social Security related to JJ. It happened on or about August 12, 2019. During the meeting, Lori had to answer questions about her relationship with Charles. She had to provide the date Charles married.
11:11 a.m. Lori Vallow was the representative payee for Tylee Ryan. Those benefits are put into a bank account for the child and payee. “If Lori Vallow was married in June 2018 to someone else, not Tylee’s benefit, would she still receive that mother of survivor benefits?” Treena asks. She would not.
11:10 a.m. Saari learned that Tylee Ryan was receiving survivor benefits from Social Security for the death of her father. She was getting $1,859 per month.
11:09 a.m. If the parent is not married at the time the other parent dies, there is no payout. If the parent remarries, the benefit ceases. The child still gets the benefits.
11:09 a.m. When a child has a parent who passes away, the mother could get benefits. If a mother is married to the father at the time of death, she will receive a mother-child care benefit. The same dollar amount for the child and for herself.
11:08 a.m. Treena asks what happens to survivor benefits when a child becomes an adult (if they are receiving them for a deceased parent). Saari says they would cease.
11:07 a.m. Saari investigates crime of abuse and fraud. He has worked for the Social Security Department for about six years.
11:06 a.m. Next witness is Mark Saari from the Office of the Inspector General. He testified in Idaho. Colby Ryan just left the courtroom.
11:03 a.m. Treena follows up with some clarifying questions and has nothing further. Baumgarner is done. Next witness will be called.
11:01 a.m. Jury questions: Was there signigicant amount of blood in the left lung? Baumgarner says not the left lung but the chest cavitiy. Does that suggest the heart was still beating during the second shot? Baumgarner says the heart could have been beating, but it’s also possible the blood spilled into the left cavity from the heart. Was there blood in the throat or mouth? There was not. No other questions.
11 a.m. Treena Kay asks if there was anything about his death that could have been anything other than gunshot wounds. Baumgarner says no. Treena has no further questions. Judge asks jury if they have questions. There is at least one.
11 a.m. Treena asks about Bamboo clothing and if it caused a shored wound at one spot, wouldn’t it cause it on the second wound too? Baumgarner says he would expect that. But there was only one shored wound. The other exit was not a shored wound.
10:58 a.m. Lori asks if tight clothes could have caused the shored wound. Baumgarner says usually a bra or belt could possibly cause that. Lori asks if he is familiar with Bamboo clothing. He is not. Lori has no further questions.
10:57 a.m. Lori asks if it’s possible Charles could have been falling when he was shot the second time and then hit the floor. Baumgarner says not really. A shored wound would not have been caused if he was falling.
10:56 a.m. Lori asks about the abrasions on Charles’ knees and if they could hvae been caused by a scuffle before he was shot. Baumgarner says that’s possible. Lori asks about the abrasions on his hands and if they could have been caused by a scuffle beforehand. He says it’s possible.
10:55 a.m. Lori asks if law enforcement were to request additional tests for drugs, would he do it. He says it’s possible, depending on what they are asking for, but it’s atypical.
10:53 a.m. Lori approaches the lectern. “Dr. Baumgarner, you did a toxicology report in this case?” He says yes, it included tests for 16-20 substances. Lori asks if that included regular medications – like for high blood pressure or testosterone. Baumgarner says that would not show up on the toxicology.
10:52 a.m. A defect on the floor in the area where Charles was shot would support the fact that he was shot on the ground. No drugs or alcohol were found in Charles’ system. Cause of death was multiple gunshot wounds. Treena has no further questions.
10:51 a.m. Both gunshot wounds were front to back. “Given the trajectory that you observed from the gunshot wound to Charles’ abdomen, would that be consistent with the shooter standing somewhere near Mr. Vallow’s feet and firing at Charles Vallow as he was laying on the floor?” Reponse: “Yes, that’s certainly possible.”
10:50 a.m. Trajectory path was front to back, right to left and upward. We now see an interior photo from Charles’ body. Treena Kay asks how you open up a body when you do an autopsy. Baumgarner says you make an incision.
10:49 a.m. Distance from Charles’ head to the entrance wound in the abdomen was 27 inches. Distance from head to exit wound was 14 inches. Prior shot had a 1.25 inch difference – this second shot was 13 inches.
10:48 a.m. Bullet went through the skin and tissue, hit Charles’ left lung, hit the left fourth rib (back part of the rib) and then exited soft tissue and skin of left shoulder, Baumgarner says.
10:47 a.m. Shored exit wounds are “relatively rare,” Baumgarner says. He’s seen less than 50 in his career. We now see a close up of the wound. “This is textbook worthy” of being a shored exit wound, Baumgarner says.
10:45 a.m. The exit wound appeared “atypical.” It was a shored exit wound. This occurs when the body is pressed against a firm surface when the bullet is exiting the skin. “If a person is lying on the floor and is shot, would you expect to see a shored exit wound?” Treena Kay asks. Baumgarner says yes.
10:43 a.m. During the autopsy, Baumgarner noted another gunshot wound. It was on his left abdomen. It was an entrance gunshot wound. We see closeup photos of the wound. There was no stippling or soot. This means the muzzle of the gun was likely 4-5 feet away from the victim. There was no projectile recovered from this bullet. The exit wound was on the back of the left shoulder.
10:41 a.m. We now see a close-up photo of inside Charles’ chest. There is a rod that shows where the bullet hit. The bullet trajectory was right to left, front to back and slightly downward.
10:40 a.m. Baumgarner says Charles could have moved and reached up to touch where he was shot with his left hand immediately following the shooting. Given the abrasions on his knees, it’s possible Charles fell to the ground on his knees after he was shot.
10:38 a.m. Baumgarner says this has all the characteristics of an exit wound. Exit wounds are normally larger than an entrance wound. From the entrance to exit wound was about 1.25 inches. Treena asks about the wound path of the gunshot wound. Baumgarner says it passed through the skin, sternum, paracardia (sack that surrounds the heart), hit two chambers of the heart and then passed through soft tissue of the skin on the left back before exiting. The wound was not immediately fatal, Baumgarner says. Charles could have lived for a “short period of time,” Baumgarner says. “Seconds up to a very few minutes.”
10:37 a.m. Baumgarner says the shooter was 2-4 feet from Charles Vallow. He did not acquire a bullet from the wound. We now see a photo of Charles’ back. The exit wound is on the middle of the back.
10:36 a.m. The closer the gun muzzle is to the person, does that increase the amount of stippling you would observe, Treena asks. Baumgarner says yes.
10:34 a.m. Baumganer says there was stippling, which is when gunpowder strikes the skin after the bullet enters. Soot is combusted gunpowder, stippling is caused by partially burned or unburned gunpowder that hits the skin.
10:32 a.m. The next series of photos show closeups of the gunshot wound on Charles’ chest. Baumgarner says this was a gunshot entrance wound. There are red abrasions around the hole. “The projectile was coming in at an angle and kind of scraped away the skin as it entered,” Baumgarner says.
10:31 a.m. Charles was wearing a watch the day he was shot. We now see a photo of Charles’ legs. There were abrasions on both knees. Baumgarner says they appear to be perimortem, caused at the time of his death.
10:30 a.m. We are now streaming video here.
10:28 a.m. Baumgarner says the wound was caused perimortem, or just around the time of death. We now see three photos of Charles’ right hand. There were no abrasions on the hand. On his left hand and fingers, there is a bit of an abrasion. There is also blood on the hand.
10:27 a.m. We now see a photo of Charles Vallow on the autopsy table. We see a bullet wound on the external chest, left abdomen area. Treena Kay zooms in on the wound. It’s pretty close to the center of Charles’ chest.
10:25 a.m. The first photo we see is Charles Vallow’s face. Baumgarner says Charles was just under 6 feet tall and weighed a little over 200 lbs. Charles had no injuries on the front of his face and there were no abrasions or contusions on the back of his head.
10:23 a.m. Baumgarner performed the autopsy on Charles Vallow. He took photos of the autopsy. Treena asks to admit photos of the autopsy.
10:22 a.m. Baumgarner explains what an autopsy is and how he writes a report after he’s done doing them.
10:20 a.m. Baumgarner started working at the ME’s office in 2018. He has several board certifications. He explains what he needed to do to be board certified.
10:18 a.m. Baumgarner works at the Maricopa County Medical Examiner’s Office. He performs autopsies, determines causes of death, runs toxicology reports and occasionally testifies in court. Treena Kay asks about his education.
10:17 a.m. First witness is Dr. Derek Baumgarner from the Medical Examiner’s Office.
10:16 a.m. Judge says there may be additional publicity issues because of this trial. He suggests an initial pool of 300 jurors. Treena Kay agrees, so does Lori. Jury is now brought into the courtroom.
10:12 a.m. Judge back on the bench. He asks to discuss the scheduling of the Brandon Boudreaux trial. Judge says remote questionnaires will go out the week of May 19. The cutoff date would be the 23rd. Parties will be at 1:30 p.m. on May 29. Walk-in jurors would be brought in for voir dire on May 30. Opening statements and evidence starts on Monday, June 2. Trial will run June 2-6, 9-13th at noon. The next week will be dark. Then June 23-25. Then June 30-July 3.
10:11 a.m. Judge has left the bench. We are still waiting for the juror to show up. The jury originally consisted of 12 jurors and two alternates. Last week, two alternates were dismissed. The jurors will not know who the alternates are until after closing arguments. A random drawing will determine who remains on the jury.
10:06 a.m. Here is a diagram showing the family relationships in this case:
10:05 a.m. Lori’s paralegal just arrived. Rexburg Detectives Ray Hermosillo and Eric Wheeler are seated on the same row as Colby Ryan.
10:04 a.m. A juror has not yet arrived. Treena Kay has her witness ready. We are waiting for the juror.
10:02 a.m. Judge asks if these issues need to be dealt with between 10-12. Prosecutor Treena Kay asks for the Bobby Vallow and Brandon Boudreaux subpoenas to be sealed. Judge grants the request. He says we will hear the motions at 1:15 today or later this afternoon.
10 a.m. Lori just walked in the courtroom. She is wearing a navy blue pantsuit. Judge Justin Beresky is on the bench. Lori says her paralegal is on the way “as far as I know.” Beresky asks Lori if she has received some motions the state filed. “I just did this morning,” Lori says. Beresky says his staff received an email from the state on Friday about the subpoena served on Bobby Vallow. Lori says she has not seen it, but heard about it. There’s also a motion in limine about police. Another motion from the state to preclude the defendant’s witnesses. Another motion to exclude a video observed by Janis Cox and Summer Shiflet.
9:53 a.m. In the courtroom. Every seat is taken. Susan Bin, a sketch artist who attended Lori’s trial in Idaho, is sitting next to me today. She has her watercolors and will be drawing today.
9:46 a.m. Court will begin in about 15 minutes. You can find the video feed here.
9:32 a.m. Rexburg Police Officers Ray Hermosillo and Eric Wheeler are in the gallery today. Colby Ryan is also here.
9:31 a.m. The waiting area is packed with people today. I think this may be the biggest crowd we’ve seen. Just spoke with three ladies who flew in from Utah for the trial. Others have traveled from Idaho, New Mexico and other places.
9:30 a.m. Trial is starting 30 minutes early today and tomorrow. It’s day 5. The state has 9 witnesses left to testify. Here is who has not testified yet – along with a graphic showing Lori’s list of potential witnesses:
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